DISQUS

bitquabit: bitquabit - The One in Which I Say That Open-Source Software Sucks

  • Hans Van Slooten · 6 months ago
    Which is why the sooner both groups accept that they are good for each other, the better off everyone will be. Open Source developers need to get over the fact that companies can confer advantages to a product, and companies need to see the value in using Open Source software to speed development and take advantage of a large group of talented developers.
  • PatrickN · 1 month ago
    Well all people have their own opinion. Personally, I always use open source software and I am very satisfied with it. I can not say that all these software work perfectly, but we can choose the best and use only them. Thanks a lot for the interesting article and I will be waiting for other great post from you in the near future.

    Sincerely,

    Peter Timerson from software development
  • Ghast · 6 months ago
    Well I certainly use a boatload of OSS stuff on my mac. I use Adium for my messaging, VLC to play media, Open Office for all my office needs, Chicken of the VNC for remoting, Audacity for sound editing, Burn for burning cds, Cyberduck for FTP/SFTP, Miro for watching online video, Transmission for bittorrent, Firefox for browsing, sorry Safari but your plugins are inferior, and many more.

    In fact even though I'm on a closed source system, most of the applications I use are in fact open source. And I'm not using these applications because I'm too cheap to get commercial alternatives, these apps work very well, have good UIs, and fill all my needs. I think some applications may have more rough edges on Linux, but there are plenty of applications which are quite mature and have very nice UIs.
  • BackwardsDown · 6 months ago
    Replace opensource with proprietary and you can say the same. There are good closed source programs, but most of them suck. In design and usability.
  • Benjamin Dobson · 5 months ago
    In open source, I can think of no user interface that I as a Mac user am willing to use. I love open source back ends, but the front is horrible.
  • blehblehfoo · 6 months ago
    Open source "sucks" to ordinary people because developers usually write it for extraordinary people to use. Most developers could care less about users who need help from "Clippy" or flashy UIs to use a piece of software. The smart ones can get what they need done with a minimal UI or command line and are smart enough to reconfigure something if they don't like it. That's what it comes down to; open source developers are minimalists, and they write software for exceptional people; they didn't write the application for whiny ordinary end-users. So if you're not technically inclined to dig into a piece of FOSS and make it better, you've no business using it to begin with. Go play with your clippy instead.
  • BooBooBurns · 6 months ago
    This comment is exactly why open source end-user software sucks.

    Not the reasoning, or the explanation, but the prickish attitude.
  • BackwardsDown · 6 months ago
    Prickish attitude? Many opensource projects are run by people in their own time. They write software for themselfs, and everyone who wants to use their software. They don't make any money on it so I would not call it 'prickish'. Most developers that work for free couldn't care less if you used their software or not, as long as you don't send them unreadable file formats like .doc.
  • Grr · 4 months ago
    Yes, the prickish, "I slaved over a hot computer making this and you dare dislike it? You'll just have to starve!" attitude.

    It doesn't matter if you wrote it in your free time as a gesture of goodwill toward humanity. If it sucks, it sucks. (And we're going to tell other people it sucks, so they don't make the mistake of using it.)
  • Aupajo · 6 months ago
    "Smart enough to reconfigure something"? "Go play with your clippy instead"? Nice attitude. Do you really think "flashy UIs" is what this article was about? Do you really think that open source software should be for some kind of elite club members only? Only for the "enlightened"? Do you really think that a UI is about eye-candy?

    I don't. I'd like to see the wealth of amazing open source software brought to the public, so that people begin to understand what open source is as a choice and make a more conscious decision about what they buy. Isn't it about being "open" to everyone? To get to that point, you need to get those people to adopt it. You need to hit a critical mass, and the main blocker to adoption rates amongst more mainstream users is a poorly-designed interface.

    A UI is not about graphic design, it's about workflow. A good UI helps you get things done. It's not about removing the functionality; it's about masking it - keeping the rarer options out of your way until you need them - to let you get on with your job. That's what you're using a UI for in the first place, right? To accomplish something. If it's easy to do, you can get it out of the way and focus on the next task.

    Now remember, I'm talking specifically about desktop apps here. The large-scale apps aimed to replace existing proprietary set-ups (OpenOffice, Firefox, Ubuntu) are the ones that need to focus on this the most, but it wouldn't hurt if smaller dev's took this message to heart.
  • dasil003 · 6 months ago
    Obviously you've never seen a skilled designer work in Illustrator or Photoshop.
  • fogus · 6 months ago
    blehblehfoo's comment is a microcosm of the problem under discussion. It has it all!
    -m
  • Antti Tarvainen · 6 months ago
    Let me offer an alternative explanation.

    Open source software is unintuitive because usability, more than any other dimension of software, demands fast feedback and unified vision among the implementation team. That is impossible to achieve over email and IRC channels - it requires physical proximity to the other team members. The usability of Firefox is a consequence of collocation.
  • Aupajo · 6 months ago
    I think the answer to this needs to come from the GUI libraries. Agree on some general interface guidelines, and make it simple to follow convention. You'll end up with a more unified suite of applications.
  • tomtomtomtomtom · 6 months ago
    Yes, this article doesn't really argue about usability in open-source vs. proprietary, but developed-by-individuals vs. developed-by-companies.
  • yesimahuman · 6 months ago
    Just imagining the people at the last place I worked having to install a proprietary system without the support they pay for makes me cringe.

    Software in general can be a clusterfuck. Companies want to know that they can have 24/7 support from people who spend all their time and energy on the product. IBM sells open source WITH support, and people buy it for a reason.

    Inkscape and GIMP are not leaders in their field like Apache and Eclipse. If they were companies would buy them from companies providing extra support on top of the open source product.
  • pauldorman · 6 months ago
  • oisin · 6 months ago
    LOL. Wish for OSS "usability" in one hand, shit in the other, see which one fills up first.

    "Usability" is expensive. No-one does it for nothing - only sponsored OSS can make it
    work - and even in sponsored OSS-land the cost is counted. Even proprietary OSS
    doesn't want to pay, the dancing bear syndrome gives enough enthusiasm to work till
    the next release.
  • adamk · 6 months ago
    Only significant candidates I can think of are Firefox and VLC Media Player
  • rm0 · 5 months ago
    I'm afraid I think you're talking crap.

    Back end software has moved to open source faster because what matters there is technical ability.

    Front end software will follow, it will just take longer because monopolies have the edge over under-educated users. Slowly, with the help of the netbook market, open source solutions are being made more widely available to users. They're beginning to cotton on already.
  • Grr · 4 months ago
    "it will just take longer because monopolies have the edge over under-educated users"

    Standard Freetard argument. "Open source would be sooo successful if only Bill Gate$ and Mi¢ro$hit WinBlows weren't all monopolistic and stuff."

    Sorry, but open source is FREE. Microsoft costs $$$, as you can't possibly refrain from pointing out at every possible opportunity. But think about it. Even in a very unfair marketplace, if one thing is free and an equally good thing costs money, people are going to choose the free one. You can download it, install it, try it out, all for no charge. After a few people discover it, it will spread like wildfire as they tell their friends about this great free alternative.

    But in the end, this doesn't happen with open source. Why not? Because it's not equally good.
  • Chris Burnley · 5 months ago
    I didn't read the whole thing because I got bored but commit the basic mistake: open source software doesn't exist because of the same reason commercial software does. You can't make these sorts of comparisons because open software is created not because of business opportunity but an itch that some programmer had. Put simply It Just Doesnt Matter if it sucks or not it will still exist regardless. This is the exact opposite of commercial software which needs people to like (and pay for) it otherwise it will wither and die.
  • Benjamin Dobson · 5 months ago
    You can make these sorts of comparisons, because people see the event, not the motive.
  • beeej90210 · 5 months ago
    I dont know about you guys but the open source software i used 2 years ago is WAY better than today. Yes proprietary software gets better as well ( with the exception of vista)

    There are software products that are better than open source software. You can say the same about open source software being better than the proprietary counter parts. I tend to lean more towards open source because i love the idea of many of these developers working hard to give me something for free and open. We have seen time and time again how bad proprietary software is... ( flash for example).

    Open Source software is better for the world. but what do i know.. i'm just a liberal pansy atheist ...
  • Benjamin Dobson · 5 months ago
    And how good it is. No open source smartphone OS has come close to being as popular as iPhone OS or BlackBerry OS. Adobe Creative Suite has no viable open source alternatives, even if people hate it so much there is an entire website dedicated to showing how awful it is. And, er, the open source software of two years ago is "WAY better than today"? No, even I think that's not right.
  • zaach · 5 months ago
    I'm not sure how you're measuring popularity or how relevant that actually is, but Android is very usable.
  • Dankoba · 5 months ago
    Also, you allude to another point: proprietary software companies can afford to maintain actual technical support hotlines, while open-source programs have to rely on bulky user manuals. Good for geeks, but the general user does not want to wade through that stuff--they just want to talk to a person and get a quick answer.
  • Grr · 4 months ago
    They wouldn't need support OR bulky manuals if the programs were usable.
  • intellectualhonesty · 5 months ago
    Show me the evidence. You have not done so. In fact academia says the opposite and they use evidence. It is your responsibility not to look silly online and you're doing that right now.
  • Benjamin Dobson · 5 months ago
    Don't be a hypocrite.
  • yyyy · 5 months ago
    +1. In particular, OpenOffice is a terrible example, because it doesn't illustrate Ben's point. OpenOffice is developed by Sun to compete with Microsoft. OpenOffice does not suck because it's opensource. OpenOffice is opensource because it sucks.
  • erangalp · 5 months ago
    I will start by saying that I agree that most open-source end-experience is bad. This is not at all different from the fact that most business/proprietary software is a usability mess as well.

    As it stands many software projects concentrate too much on the software making than on the experience shaping. It probably stems from the fact that decision makers are usually not well versed in UX and UI design and its implications. When they want software built, they ask a software designer (system architect?) to make it happen, and those too usually lack in common UX sense. In open-source, those decision makers are often the software designers themselves themselves, so there is not much difference.

    There is some highly-usable open-source software. Mozilla Firefox comes to mind, also wordpress (which as far as code is concerned its a mess). Several Linux distros have made significant progress (though are not there yet). The point is that effort is being made - once you recognize the importance of user experience and have the means to improve in that respect, then you will achieve usability. I would imagine though that it's easier to recruit top-notch UX experts to a commercial project than an open-source one.
  • Sandra Snan · 5 months ago
    I’m sure there’s plenty of shops using free software. I know Rhythm & Hues is an example that’s brought up often in this tired debate, but they’ve contributed a lot to the Gimp, especially documentation-wise. (They’ve done a lot of work for big Hollywood movies, especially with animals moving their lips.)

    (By the way, why would a shop advertise that they use mainly free software, especially to their competitors? In the public sector desktop free software is gaining ground.)

    “open-source software is, incontrovertibly, a total usability clusterfuck.”

    Absolutely, but when I think of “end-user-software-as-product” I think of Microsoft, Adobe and, eh, Maya, and those are usability clusterfucks too. Apple, a company that’s for those who actively seek usability, have some horrible products as well (I'm not a big fan iTunes).

    When I think of usability, I also think about having to deal with upgrades, prices, anti-piracy–measures and junk like that. I see a lot of people arguing the benefits of running old versions, and in some cases, they have to (for example, if they’re still on a PPC). Many are prefering XP over Vista. With free software this is far less common.

    Sure, navigating the goatse trollfest that is the hacker community is often painful but once you’ve learned your way around freshmeat.net or your local apt-repository you’re set for life.

    I’ve used free software for everything I do for the last ten years—music, short movies, book layout, images and design. (Some might not share my tastes or choices, but I would’ve chosen the same colors, margins and fonts even with proprietary software, so my (lack of) skill is moot.)

    It was an investment learning to deal with makefiles, tarballs and debs but it has sure paid off. Everytime I overhear someone saying “Upgraded to CS4 yet?” “Naw, I can’t afford it.” I take a breath of relief knowing that they’re pry my dirty GNU hippie software from my cold dead hands. Or, well, they could just apt-get it themselves.
  • Benjamin Dobson · 5 months ago
    Interesting that you mention iTunes. On the Mac side it's actually quite good. The thing that comes to mind for me is QuickTime. Ugh, what a mess that is.

    And, er, that's about it.
  • happinessiseasy · 5 months ago
    Your whole argument seems to sit precariously on this lack of usability precipice, and you proceed to argue why usability of open-source sucks. But that begs the question, doesn't it?

    Beyond that, you actually give some good examples of open-source that companies DO use (SQL and Apache, which are everywhere). I work for SAIC on a government site, and I'm using Eclipse to write Java. We also use MySQL for databases, and GNOME on our Linux boxes, and I'm typing this comment on Firefox (which is approved for use by the DoD).

    I think there are a lot of reasons companies don't use -certain- open-source software packages. I haven't done the research myself, but I think there's at least some element of trust that companies that are risking financial profits are unwilling to give. The cost of software is less the bigger you are, because your overall revenue is so great. You even pay for support and maintenance, which a lot of open-source doesn't provide, so why not spend the cash and get the "industry-standard"?
  • apere006 · 5 months ago
    I have found OSS much easier to use then closed source software. It could be since it's usually free I can get the best options. There has been so much closed pieces if software that are unusable. Why are use assuing that closed opitions are popular because they are easy to use and not just because the are the market leaders and too entrenced in business. Office 2007 is super unituive and I think 90% would find openoffice easier even though it's not great either. Photoshop took me much long to understand vs gimp. iTunes is much worse on pc then many other music managers. Firefox > IE and opera in terms of usability
  • ato2 · 5 months ago
    "Without exception, these products are only open-source because they, as a product, don’t actually confer much value to the parent company. Mozilla ultimately cares far less about whether you actually use Firefox than whether your Google queries list Mozilla as the referrer"

    You are just talking out of your arse. The Mozilla corp. is not an ordinary company, it's a hybrid organisation, a 100% subsidary of the Mozilla Foundation, which is a public benefit organisation, all the money Mozilla makes has to be reinvested to advance the mission. Do you want to know, what the mission is? It's not to making money but to improving the way people everywhere experience the Internet, it's encouraging choice, innovation and opportunity online. The Mozilla Manifesto: http://www.mozilla.org/about/manifesto.en.html

    Imagine that, it's not about the GoogleSearch clicks, we've worked on Mozilla before that! We have seen the 95% IE dominance, we know how important choice on the internet is. 40% of the Mozilla code is contributed by volunteers, it simply wouldn't be possible for Mozilla to compete with Google, Apple and Microsoft and actually win, if they were a closed source company. I know I would not contribute my time to fill the pockets of stockholders or the CEO. And it would be nice if you could show some gratitude while you browse the web with Safari, Chrome, IE8, Firefox or any other browser of *your choice*.

    Oh, and closed source software sucks as well, but then, ninety percent of everything is crud. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturgeon%27s_law
  • Tinus · 5 months ago
    Great and usable Open-Source software I actually use:

    - FileZilla
    - Firefox
    - VLC
    - Thunderbird
    - Miro

    and less userfriendly, but very stable:

    - Yes, Linux, Apache, post-fix, MySQL, PHP, PHPMyAdmin etc.

    I don't care how many open-source software packages are unusable. The user-friendly applications have brought enough joy to the world to make up for the bad ones.
  • Grr · 4 months ago
    "if you make twist my arm"
  • billbutlercommons · 4 months ago
    please add blender to the list. i'm with you that most open source stuff is unusuable. What happens like linux is there is 1 app made like 20 years ago and everyone just keeps updating it instead of making something new. while the followers think they are developers they just hack on crap. vlc for one is going down the dumpster. most opensource followers from the development standpoint do have a prick attitude. enter any development forum and ask any question. if you don't read the cryptic 20 page manual and scour the entire internet first they will not answer your question and just berate you. even if you are compentent they will ask why are you asking to p[rove they are smart. real developers (the ones who originate completed projects) don't seem to have this attitude.